Motards

[Dutch]

Motards will only be allowed at Summit JC and Pocono in the MA Region. Motards are defined and single cylinder dirt bike based machines.

[hank]

So the Aprilia SXV 450 & 550 are OK everywhere since they are v-twins?

:rolleyes: :notsure: :doh: :popcorn: Damn I love these new emoticons...

[Dutch]

No to the Aprlilias as well. Published top speeds of 100 mph for both.

[hank]

Thanks for the clarification Dutch!

I need to re-evaluate my next bike purchase... :argh:

[ridelater]

fair enough rules are rules, but why? If the bike is properly geared they do over 100. When i was at beaver I was running 107, 108 and was asked off the track(i was making and geting passed, your reg. track day). Is it not the respondabilty of the rider who is behind to judge speed and make safe passes. Are the motors blowing up. what about 125 and 250 2-stokes are they not the same. They do race supermoto w/ wera at summit main. the guy i spoke to said he was doing1. 20 on a 525 ktm. If it all about closing speeds then you should get rid of 1/3 of all the rider in each group b/c that the difference between the fast guy and slow one in all three groups

[Geoff Doyer]

:banghead:

[hondahawkrider]

this is crap...

so instead of my sxc625 motard I guess I will have to run my 990 Adventure instead..... Like that won't make more of a target....

So, I guess this means that ninja 250's are any other small displacement bikes are also banned right...

[antirich]

OK, this is your club and you set the rules. Can't argue the underling reason, I wish more clubs would focus more on safety.

Just want a few questions answered by someone from NESBA (directors) and I'll let it go.

1)With the argument of top speed capability being the deciding factor, why are bikes like the EX500, CB-1, Clubman singles, Monster 620 and Ninja 250 not baned as well? Not only are they an equivalent top speed, but take longer to get there (more weight, less torque). I know there was mention of "if we see an issue on the track we'll say something" but shouldn't the same rules apply? How is a 116mph Monster any less dangerous than a 115 mph Aprilia SVX?

2) Unless things have changed, don't Motards, 125s, and Clubman bikes all share the same practice time at WERA and CSS events? Of all the deaths/major crashes i've read, don't remember one pertaining to a superbike running into the rear of a 450 powered clubman. if that is the case, I'd be interested to hear what happened.

3) How did this guy get on the track at a NESBA event:

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=03HV00GQ2P0017&po=17

By the way, the KTM you see here held his own very well in the I-group at Lightning. The only time I was able to pass him (on my 120 HP bike) was on the front straight, for he carried far more corner speed and broke way deeper than the majority of riders that day. And i think I only passed him twice if that.

If everyone's theory that they'll run into Motards cause of their big bad bikes, why wasn't this guy a problem? I don't remember a bike sticking out of his ass at the end of the day.


Again, your club, your rules. Just would rather hear the details from the top.

[hondahawkrider]

Hmmmmm... I thought "track days" were for rider improvement... I guess it's really more race practice than a track day... I guess to come to the track for nesba you have to have a 600/750/1000 supersports bike to play...

I for one will be calling my insurance company .. The nice thing about track day was it was "rider improvement" so if some thing happened to my bike I was covered.. However, since I am being discriminated against now, be sure I will be making it known that I can't participate in such events. Since top speed or horsepower is now a requirement for nesba - I wonder if it might impact it's and individual's insurance policies and claims. I know that MY insurance company ie allstate is looking at ways to reject motorcyclists .... I never thought I would help em out

[Beth G]

this is crap...

so instead of my sxc625 motard I guess I will have to run my 990 Adventure instead..... Like that won't make more of a target....

So, I guess this means that ninja 250's are any other small displacement bikes are also banned right...

Unfortunately, there are decisions that need to be made that concern safety and they are not always popular. Quite frankly a ninja 250, Motard, or other small displacement bikes on a high speed track such as NJMP or Summit Main is just not a good fit. Lets use a little common sense here. The funny thing is common sense appears to be not so common.... Am I one of the few on here that understands closing speeds?? You all bitch about slower riders holding you up ect...., but you want NESBA to allow a bike that is not capable of running at the speeds that these tracks run at? Lets think about this for a second..... If you put a slow rider on a slow bike what do you have? A dangerous situation! Come on guys this isn't rocket science!! Lets find something that's worth bitching about!! :saythat:

[Geoff Doyer]

1)With the argument of top speed capability being the deciding factor, why are bikes like the EX500, CB-1, Clubman singles, Monster 620 and Ninja 250 not baned as well? Not only are they an equivalent top speed, but take longer to get there (more weight, less torque). I know there was mention of "if we see an issue on the track we'll say something" but shouldn't the same rules apply? How is a 116mph Monster any less dangerous than a 115 mph Aprilia SVX?

Maybe we will ban other bikes from high speed tracks. We haven't discussed it as a group. IF we do I hope it makes you feel better. I think mostly it's just because HATE guys on dirtbikes. We decided, even though the majority of the event directors in the MA ride them, that we want to piss off everyone who owns one just for giggles

2) Unless things have changed, don't Motards, 125s, and Clubman bikes all share the same practice time at WERA and CSS events? Of all the deaths/major crashes i've read, don't remember one pertaining to a superbike running into the rear of a 450 powered clubman. if that is the case, I'd be interested to hear what happened.

Yes they practice together. And NO there has never been an incident of a superbike crashing into one of these. NEVER. Probably because they don't allow superbikes to run with far less powerful bikes. Why you may ask? Maybe if you really think about it you can find the answer within

3) How did this guy get on the track at a NESBA event:

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orde...GQ2P0017&po=17

By the way, the KTM you see here held his own very well in the I-group at Lightning. The only time I was able to pass him (on my 120 HP bike) was on the front straight, for he carried far more corner speed and broke way deeper than the majority of riders that day. And i think I only passed him twice if that.

If everyone's theory that they'll run into Motards cause of their big bad bikes, why wasn't this guy a problem? I don't remember a bike sticking out of his ass at the end of the day.


Again, your club, your rules. Just would rather hear the details from the top.

That photo was taken almost a month ago. And I wasn't there but I am sure that he was awesome in the corners and on the brakes as most motard riders are. Not the point. The point is that you have other people closing on him at the end of the straight with ridiculous closing speeds that are dangerous.

[barry38]

All things must evolve. While we did allow motards at various tracks in the past, unfortunatley it has gotten to the point where decisions have to be made in the name of safety on the track. No doubt some people will be upset and put off by this.

No matter how hard we try NESBA can't be all things to all people. And remember it's the North East SPORTBIKE Association. It's not about discriminating against anyone, it's the fact that our purpose it to provide people with an opportunity to ride sportbikes on the racetrack, not necesarily any motorcycle they want to ride.

[ToddG]

Hmmmmm... I thought "track days" were for rider improvement... I guess it's really more race practice than a track day... I guess to come to the track for nesba you have to have a 600/750/1000 supersports bike to play...

I for one will be calling my insurance company .. The nice thing about track day was it was "rider improvement" so if some thing happened to my bike I was covered.. However, since I am being discriminated against now, be sure I will be making it known that I can't participate in such events. Since top speed or horsepower is now a requirement for nesba - I wonder if it might impact it's and individual's insurance policies and claims. I know that MY insurance company ie allstate is looking at ways to reject motorcyclists .... I never thought I would help em out

Are you flipping kidding me!? I'm not hearing what I want so I'm picking up my ball and going home!?

It all boils down to safety!!!!!!!

So, you have one guy that fared well at NJMP.... So it must be ok? Lets play Russian roulette.... I spun the barrel and pulled the trigger.... Nothing.... YOUR TURN! I personally have and run a Built YZ450F Motard and I wouldn't even entertain running it on these tracks!! Yea, it turns upper :54's at JC and I can hold my own out in the A class there, but it scares me to death to think about putting it out on the faster tracks. It has a top speed with 15/37 of 106, but on my GSXR I'm in 6th pinned at 150ish on these faster tracks, yea that makes perfect sense to me...NOT! My head hurts with all of this!!

[Lenny ZX9R]

Wheres Buck? We need him to chime in on this!:popcorn:

[buck34]

OK, I see we have it we have it all wrong. It's perfectly exceptable for me to come through T8 at Beaver just sniff a drat off Jason Crismore down the back straight going into T9, go to the inside of him at 155+mph OH WAIT!!!!! the a F'N dirt bike parked just through the kink. Well that theory of no-body getting killed just went out the window.

I owned a Motard , absolutely loved it. But like anything, theres a place. Why the hell do you think most go-cart tracks welcome them. Because that's where they belong! And if they are running on race tracks, it's a racing class of their own.

Further more, what you complainers don't realize is how Dangerous it would be in the B and I classes. Many times we have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight all thinking their going to try to out brake one another on 1000s, 600s, 750s etc with ZERO SKILL SETS!, now lets toss in a Motard going
100 mph for good measure. This should be interesting.

[antirich]

Many times we have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight all thinking their going to try to out brake one another on 1000s, 600s, 750s etc with ZERO SKILL SETS!, now lets toss in a Motard going 100 mph for good measure. This should be interesting.

That's funny. Your control rider just said there's only one race line on straight aways:

Antirich,
There is a race line on straightaways. If you remove yourself from the race line and then attempt to blindly rejoin the race line when approaching (or in) the brake zone you are potentially put riders behind you in harms way. ...
Mike

So how can you have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight with all of them still being online?

And for the record, a tard doesn't need the same race line as a traditional sportbike. I have no problem hugging the inside of most turns with that thing.

[Armadillo]

Unfortunately, there are decisions that need to be made that concern safety and they are not always popular. Quite frankly a ninja 250, Motard, or other small displacement bikes on a high speed track such as NJMP or Summit Main is just not a good fit. Lets use a little common sense here. The funny thing is common sense appears to be not so common.... Am I one of the few on here that understands closing speeds?? You all bitch about slower riders holding you up ect...., but you want NESBA to allow a bike that is not capable of running at the speeds that these tracks run at? Lets think about this for a second..... If you put a slow rider on a slow bike what do you have? A dangerous situation! Come on guys this isn't rocket science!! Lets find something that's worth bitching about!! :saythat:

the problem is that we are not bitching about what you claim we are bitching about. if the problem is closing speed, base your bannings on closing speed, not how the bike looks. so horsepower and top speed must be the determinng factor. say nothing under 100HP on this track, nothing under 50hp on that track. fine, atleast thats a logical and veracious criteria. these bannings clearly have nothing to do with motards under performing at the track, but some other hidden criteria. a blanket banning is just lazy.

[Pascal]

have you ever closed on another bike with 50+ mph speed difference? let me rephrase - have you ever gone down the highway and come up on a car going 45mph for whatever reason and go - wow!? now double that. sort off like coming around a bend and wow - there's a still-standing traffic jam!

I'm guessing not.

I had a B rider this year on a ZX10 almost run me over - we talked after the session, guy was honest as could be - wow, I had no idea how fast I was going compared to the group in front...

[antirich]

Yes they practice together. And NO there has never been an incident of a superbike crashing into one of these. NEVER. Probably because they don't allow superbikes to run with far less powerful bikes. Why you may ask? Maybe if you really think about it you can find the answer within


My point is that they practice together and no one has ran into the back of one. Open race practices are more hostile than a NESBA track day, no?

And of course they don't race together, what would the point of that be?



That photo was taken almost a month ago. And I wasn't there but I am sure that he was awesome in the corners and on the brakes as most motard riders are. Not the point. The point is that you have other people closing on him at the end of the straight with ridiculous closing speeds that are dangerous.

My point was that no one (to my knowledge) made any complaints about an orange motard causing a dangerous situation. In fact, what I saw was a guy running quite well with packs of other bikes. He used his advantage by keeping that thing at top speed in the turns, powering out of the turns then out braking others. There's only one real significant straight on that track, and no one was ass-packing him. He left plenty of room on the left, and if you had to balls to try to out brake him, you could get around him.

On the other hand, we had a few people on bigger bikes who would ham fist the straight, then park it in the turns (couldn't tell if they were 750 or liter bikes). That pissed me off way more than any motard on the track, for I didn't feel I had 6 safe feet to pass them on the turns. So i wait for the straight, then they ham fist it again. Only way to get around was through some very hard braking.

But hey, I'm just one rider. If anyone was there in the Intermediate group and had a problem with the two motards, please chime in.


By the way, of the few motard guys out there, how come no one ever mentions the risk of gernading their engine on a long straight? I'd worry more about that than getting hit from behind.

[RyanITV]

That's funny. Your control rider just said there's only one race line on straight aways:

So how can you have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight with all of them still being online?

And for the record, a tard doesn't need the same race line as a traditional sportbike. I have no problem hugging the inside of most turns with that thing.

I believe Buck was pretty clear about why they were off the proper line...

...B and I classes. Many times we have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight all thinking their going to try to out brake one another on 1000s, 600s, 750s etc with ZERO SKILL SETS...

[buck34]

That's funny. Your control rider just said there's only one race line on straight aways:



So how can you have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight with all of them still being online?

And for the record, a tard doesn't need the same race line as a traditional sportbike. I have no problem hugging the inside of most turns with that thing.

EXACTLY MY POINT! Beginner / Intermediate riders, very often not on the race line! that's why they are in B and I groups.

[Armadillo]

i'm the guy in the pic I422. kawlreaper said he almost fell off his bike laughing as i passed 4 bikes on the brakes going into turn 1 that day and all 4 of thier heads snapped to the side in unison watching me go by.

have you ever closed on another bike with 50+ mph speed difference? let me rephrase - have you ever gone down the highway and come up on a car going 45mph for whatever reason and go - wow!? now double that. sort off like coming around a bend and wow - there's a still-standing traffic jam!

I'm guessing not.

I had a B rider this year on a ZX10 almost run me over - we talked after the session, guy was honest as could be - wow, I had no idea how fast I was going compared to the group in front...

I have no problem with this and COMPLETELY support restrictions, but base your restrictions on logic. i just dont understand how i'm not getting through. ban slow bikes, not just slow bikes that look like dirtbikes. capisce? banning motards makes no more sense than banning people that wear green helmets. banning all motorcycles that have less than 120MPH top speed or 75hp(for exapmle) makes complete sense as these points relate exactly to your concerns of closing speeds...







oh btw, ban green helmets too, i mean really... who wears a green helmet...

[hondahawkrider]

Last season, Nesba has a Sat special on Summit Main .. I took the tard cause another tard rider was going - we got dusted on the main straight but kept up the speed in thru the turns... Amazingly enough it was NOT the tards that caused any crashes - it was that some yahoos thought it was acceptable to go 5 wide into turn one and amazingly enough someone washed the front end and crashed.. This happend more than once...

can we ban stupid too....

I have heard Dutch's speech about NOT bumping someone cause they can't get around someone - ie the faster more experienced riders are supposed to be able to get around slower bikes with no problem... Again, it's a "track day" and not a race - there is no trophy or prize money to be had at the end of the day.. So motard doesn't have the straight line speed, it does have superior cornering speed. S0 as it's just a track day - why can't the expectation be that the person who is coming up on the motard must get around them safely..

There needs to be some criteria that makes sense... Saying that Motards are banned because of hp or top speed when other lesser hp/top speed bikes are still allowed is blatantly discriminatory. Without some kind of uniform across the board criteria, it does make it seem like that they are being banned on a whim ...

[TwoTyres]

Of all the things happening on the track, closing speeds are the biggest concern of mine, in the B group there are so many types of riders and bikes that something needed to be done to help alleviate this problem. i have ran up on a slow rider on a motard ( beaver T7 )and i had no idea they were moving that slow, i had to pass them even though it wasn't a legal pass.

motards are not being banned, just restricted to safer tracks. There has to be bike rules in place, after all i wouldn't want to see cruisers on the track while i was out there.

[buck34]

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by you, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if you ride a Motard on any track other than Summit JC and Pocono East, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges of riding my Motard, herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks from the cooler! You bumped into Buck's bike which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

[jennthebiker]

i have ran up on a slow rider on a motard ( beaver T7 )and i had no idea they were moving that slow, i had to pass them even though it wasn't a legal pass.


for years dutch has said at the rider meeting i havent heard it lately so maybe it was just in the beginner meeting... to paraphrase.. 'no illegal pass can be justified. it means the person who made the illegal pass was not in control of their machine.'

twotyres -- that slow rider could have been on a gixxer1000. slow rider is a slow rider no matter the bike. you had no idea that rider was moving that slow? my advise: look further down to track while riding in order to be more aware of your surroundings.

[Armadillo]

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by you, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if you ride a Motard on any track other than Summit JC and Pocono East, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges of riding my Motard, herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks from the cooler! You bumped into Buck's bike which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

now THATS great. gene wilder. i loved that movie

[Thunderace]

Here is a perfect example of closing speeds that Nesba is trying to express. Here is Todd on his hopped up YZ450F on JC. You can see the lead he has on me going onto the back straight and how fast I catch him. We enter the back straight at maybe 70mph and I can see 130mph indicated on a good day. He tops out at 110mph. That's only 20mph difference on JC, a track that allows motards.

On a track like Thunderbolt, we enter the front straight at about 125mph and reach about 165mph (yeah, I looked). A bike that can only do 110mph will max out even before the front straight. It's all about safety in a sport that is inherently dangerous. My vote sides with the powers that be. Who knows, with all the changes that Nesba has gone through in the 4 years I've been with the club, maybe they'll have motard days and I will be excluded. That will just piss me off!:flipoff:

Motard on JC (http://mdrecmgt.com/jim/Motardexample.wmv)

[Lenny ZX9R]

"You want the truth, you can't handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has armco barriers, those barriers have th be guarded by Directors and CRs on bikes. Who"s gonna do it, you, you Armadillo! We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom, you weep for the Motards and you curse NESBA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know, that Motards, while good bikes, are not good on fast tracks and our existence while grotesque and incomprehensible, to you, saves crashing. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, You want us on that armco, you need us on that armco! We use words like smooth, control, consistency! We use these words as the backbone of a life dedicated to helping our fellow riders, you use them as a punchline!
WE have nether the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves any more, to a person who rises and sleeps under the great track days that we provide, and then questions manner in which we provide it.
WE would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, otherwise we suggest you pick up a faster bike for these tracks, or try to be a Director or CR. Either way we don't give a damn what you think your entitled to!":banghead::doh:
All for fun! Don't get the pants in a bunch!:D

[PJZOCC624]

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by you, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if you ride a Motard on any track other than Summit JC and Pocono East, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges of riding my Motard, herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks from the cooler! You bumped into Buck's bike which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!


A sign that the apocolypse is upon us... When quotes from Willy Wonka are permeating our daily lives.

Good God, I just pissed myself!!!:haha::haha::haha:

[jennthebiker]

ARGH..... come on guys. the point is that motards are not the only low horsepower / low top speed bikes out there! the question isn't the issue of 'safety'. the question is why are you forbiding only motards (defined as any single cylinder motorcycle with a dirtbike base .... and also the aprilia vtwin machines) on all but two race tracks in this area? there are clearly bikes that have less hp and less top speed than the defined motards that are not being banned from larger tracks. why are those bikes not getting banned too?

armadillo could have been on an sv that day with the same amount of hp (or a bit less actually).

todd in the video above could have been on an equivalent hp/top speed 'sportbike'

i will of course abide by the rules. i'm just asking for some consistency.

maybe a group of motard guys have caused a ruckus that is unknown to the members at large. maybe the rs250 guys haven't. or the sv guys haven't. *shrug*

and yeah... who wants to follow a guy in a green helmet anyway.

[ridelater]

OK, I see we have it we have it all wrong. It's perfectly exceptable for me to come through T8 at Beaver just sniff a drat off Jason Crismore down the back straight going into T9, go to the inside of him at 155+mph OH WAIT!!!!! the a F'N dirt bike parked just through the kink. Well that theory of no-body getting killed just went out the window.

Well, first if your any kind of rider you would be aware that one is on the track, 2, if the rider is running a decent lap time for his group you would if your lucky pass him once. If you are aware of your surrounding you would know that you were coming up on the rider and adjust you lines accordingly as will the rider as he passes you back going into t9.

I owned a Motard , absolutely loved it. But like anything, theres a place. Why the hell do you think most go-cart tracks welcome them. Because that's where they belong! And if they are running on race tracks, it's a racing class of their own.

I going to assume you don't race motard b/c if you did you will know it is hard to get them on the track. most track hate or don't understand motard. The ins. is different. also most can't won't don't know how to set up dirt section. It's still a growing sport, at most races the riders are out helping fixing the dirt etc..., corner working etc... just to run a race.

LIke i said its a growing sport a guy can buy a street legal one take it to work to the track and maybe the dirt all for one price. That is why you see more of them out there

Further more, what you complainers don't realize is how Dangerous it would be in the B and I classes. Many times we have 5 and 6 wide coming down a straight all thinking their going to try to out brake one another on 1000s, 600s, 750s etc with ZERO SKILL SETS!, now lets toss in a Motard going


as a complainer i still don't see your point. if a rider w/ ZERO SKILL SETS! can be riding a scooter and will be in the same postion. As far as i am concern you should be looking several turns ahead and know what you are doing, if not don't blame the guy on the motard work w/ the other riders and make them better coach

100 mph for good measure. This should be interesting
?????? what into the turn??????? on the strait, listen they do more then 100 and that is just the smaller ones. 150 120 there not that much difference. Its the difference between any slow guy and fast guy on track

if your point is closing speed then address it , don't single out the new guy on the block



come on mister we just want to ride

[Armadillo]

"You want the truth, you can't handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has armco barriers, those barriers have th be guarded by Directors and CRs on bikes. Who"s gonna do it, you, you Armadillo! We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom, you weep for the Motards and you curse NESBA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know, that Motards, while good bikes, are not good on fast tracks and our existence while grotesque and incomprehensible, to you, saves crashing. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, You want us on that armco, you need us on that armco! We use words like smooth, control, consistency! We use these words as the backbone of a life dedicated to helping our fellow riders, you use them as a punchline!
WE have nether the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves any more, to a person who rises and sleeps under the great track days that we provide, and then questions manner in which we provide it.
WE would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, otherwise we suggest you pick up a faster bike for these tracks, or try to be a Director or CR. Either way we don't give a damn what you think your entitled to!":banghead::doh:
All for fun! Don't get the pants in a bunch!:D

Good job on that. However I agree with restricting bikes to certain tracks. I am in NO way arguing against these policies. I am arguing that the ban should not be based on a type of bike but the underlying problem. Its top speed or horse power. I ran a gixxer on thundergoat on Wednesday and could not imagine doing it on my 70hp motard or a gen 1 sv650 for that mater

[Lenny ZX9R]

Armadillo, thanks for seeing the humor! I'll C/U at the track!;)

[Viper]

"You want the truth, you can't handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has armco barriers, those barriers have th be guarded by Directors and CRs on bikes. Who"s gonna do it, you, you Armadillo! We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom, you weep for the Motards and you curse NESBA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know, that Motards, while good bikes, are not good on fast tracks and our existence while grotesque and incomprehensible, to you, saves crashing. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, You want us on that armco, you need us on that armco! We use words like smooth, control, consistency! We use these words as the backbone of a life dedicated to helping our fellow riders, you use them as a punchline!
WE have nether the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves any more, to a person who rises and sleeps under the great track days that we provide, and then questions manner in which we provide it.
WE would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, otherwise we suggest you pick up a faster bike for these tracks, or try to be a Director or CR. Either way we don't give a damn what you think your entitled to!":banghead::doh:
All for fun! Don't get the pants in a bunch!:D

:haha:

thats was pretty dam funny, and i actually like that part in the movie......

good one Lenny......


Viper

[Lenny ZX9R]

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by you, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if you ride a Motard on any track other than Summit JC and Pocono East, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges of riding my Motard, herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks from the cooler! You bumped into Buck's bike which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

I actually Love Willie Wonka! I remember that line in the movie! Hilarious! I just thought I'd add a little more humor:D

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Dutch
I really dont have A dog in this fight but I will enlighten you on A few facts about the Aprilias,

Ours top out around 140mph, They have run 1.38,s at VIR North, 1.22,s at Summit main. and 1.25's at Grattan. Few of the problems that I see, Its not the closing speed of the bikes on the straight, Its the motards flying by the sportbikes on the brakes then driving away.
The Aprilia will most likley flat out run most of your members no matter what they are on and should be excluded from your motard ban.

Aaron Brown
AB-1 Motorsports

[EngineNoO9]

nevermind. missed Dutch's post on the first page

[rugbymook]

Dutch
I really dont have A dog in this fight but I will enlighten you on A few facts about the Aprilias,

The Aprilia will most likley flat out run most of your members no matter what they are on and should be excluded from your motard ban.

Aaron Brown
AB-1 Motorsports

Ummmmmmmmm.

Throw Zac or Dustin on a Zuma and they'll flat out run most of the members. :p

[jennthebiker]

No to the Aprlilias as well. Published top speeds of 100 mph for both.

dutch's post from page 1

[hank]

Dutch
I really dont have A dog in this fight but I will enlighten you on A few facts about the Aprilias,

Ours top out around 140mph, They have run 1.38,s at VIR North, 1.22,s at Summit main. and 1.25's at Grattan. Few of the problems that I see, Its not the closing speed of the bikes on the straight, Its the motards flying by the sportbikes on the brakes then driving away.
The Aprilia will most likley flat out run most of your members no matter what they are on and should be excluded from your motard ban.

Aaron Brown
AB-1 Motorsports

Excellent point!

The basic argument here is that motards and sport bikes have different strengths and weaknesses and are capable of being ridden very differently while on the same track.

I can appreciate that top-end speeds favor the larger-capacity sport bikes, while mid-corner ability - both in terms of speed and multiple line choice - favors the motards.

Motards continue to gain in popularity and they are an excellent alternative to sport bikes that get lighter and produce more HP each year... Personally, my riding goals are changing - I no longer desire to go 165 MPH in a straight line to have fun, I am tending to prefer to slow down and get a smaller, lighter bike so I can ride more technical tracks.

Sure, I would gladly buy a 400 ~ 550cc 4-stroke sport bike, but since we here in the US prefer large-capacity machines (that the majority of owners can't control), the possible choices aren't available... so I am looking at motards. If that means limiting the tracks available to me - I can accept that. Then again, a 400 ~ 550 cc 4-stroke would probably be banned on the same tracks as the tards...

So, how about getting people together to start a Motard Club called North East Motard Bike Association (NEMBA)?

[AB-1 Motorsports]

dutch's post from page 1

Read my post from page 4

[Dutch]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have been looking at this issue for the better part of a year. Discussing it amongst the directors. Watching how events play out at different tracks. Like it or not this is my decision and one I will stand behind. Complain all you want. I'll take the heat for this decision. The alternative is taking the heat for not making this call, having a high speed collision, and the members asking me why we allowed this unsafe condition to exist in the first place. We are not banning motards. We are limiting them to more appropriate tracks where the closing speeds are not as much of an issue. I feel the need to point out that some of you, while making your arguments against this, have actually reinforced this decision. B and I riders arguing to take a different line down the front straight when on a tard and then blend back in at the brake markers? Seriously? Arguing that you are being discriminated against because we wont let you run your 100 mph machine on a track capable of 160 mph? Yes you are right. We are discriminating against you. You want to be angry and alive or happy and dead? Angry and alive I can live with.

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Ummmmmmmmm.

Throw Zac or Dustin on a Zuma and they'll flat out run most of the members. :p

What.....................just making A point...........you aint helping much

Ab
:D

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have been looking at this issue for the better part of a year. Discussing it amongst the directors. Watching how events play out at different tracks. Like it or not this is my decision and one I will stand behind. Complain all you want. I'll take the heat for this decision. The alternative is taking the heat for not making this call, having a high speed collision, and the members asking me why we allowed this unsafe condition to exist in the first place. We are not banning motards. We are limiting them to more appropriate tracks where the closing speeds are not as much of an issue. I feel the need to point out that some of you, while making your arguments against this, have actually reinforced this decision. B and I riders arguing to take a different line down the front straight when on a tard and then blend back in at the brake markers? Seriously? Arguing that you are being discriminated against because we wont let you run your 100 mph machine on a track capable of 160 mph? Yes you are right. We are discriminating against you. You want to be angry and alive or happy and dead? Angry and alive I can live with.


So if one of my 5.5's had clip ons and A fairing....we could ride it ?

[ridelater]

well, i do love to complain, so i will. dutch your point is flawed if your only going to believe a sm will only do 100mph. and if its closing speed you are so worried about ban everything from a sv 650 and down on the bigger track if safty is your #1 concern. we could start a list of bikes that could cause and accident and speeds. ninja 250's gone, 125&250 two stoker bye bye, 600 that are 97' and older see ya! nice to know you! sv650 a damm meance i tell you! always getting in the way! Also we have to get on all the people that don't push it on the strait. I mean jesus christ what are they thinking i could hit one of them when i am not watching the track. I mean what are they thinking it a track day for cry out loud. don't they know its all about speed.
serious though its a bullshit excuse to ban sm
fuck it though I would not put my sm on the track any way for fear of hurting the motor. hell, i got sm series to run in and i need the useless point damn it( whaaaaaaaa!!! i want a top 5 finish whaaaaaaaaa!!!!)

[rugbymook]

well, i do love to complain, so i will. dutch your point is flawed if your only going to believe a sm will only do 100mph. and if its closing speed you are so worried about ban everything from a sv 650 and down on the bigger track if safty is your #1 concern. we could start a list of bikes that could cause and accident and speeds. ninja 250's gone, 125&250 two stoker bye bye, 600 that are 97' and older see ya! nice to know you! sv650 a damm meance i tell you! always getting in the way! Also we have to get on all the people that don't push it on the strait. I mean jesus christ what are they thinking i could hit one of them when i am not watching the track. I mean what are they thinking it a track day for cry out loud. don't they know its all about speed.
serious though its a bullshit excuse to ban sm
fuck it though I would not put my sm on the track any way for fear of hurting the motor. hell, i got sm series to run in and i need the useless point damn it( whaaaaaaaa!!! i want a top 5 finish whaaaaaaaaa!!!!)


The only bike you mentioned that could be slower than a motard is the Ninja 250..... but i doubt it.

Two smoker 125's can move. A TZ 250 can destroy many a 600. SV's are not inherently slow. I can stay with most 600's for the better part of a straight on mine. (Oh, btw, there's no real difference between a 1st gen or 2nd gen SV regarding top speed)

I ran a KTM 450 that was built for the WERA motard class. 53hp, full race suspension, blah, blah, blah. They get in the way at track days. Period. Racing is different. You are grouped together with like machines and the grid size is far smaller than any "B", "I", or "A" NESBA session.

The Dutch has spoken. Live with it.

[AB-1 Motorsports]

The only bike you mentioned that could be slower than a motard is the Ninja 250..... but i doubt it.

Two smoker 125's can move. A TZ 250 can destroy many a 600. SV's are not inherently slow. I can stay with most 600's for the better part of a straight on mine. (Oh, btw, there's no real difference between a 1st gen or 2nd gen SV regarding top speed)

I ran a KTM 450 that was built for the WERA motard class. 53hp, full race suspension, blah, blah, blah. They get in the way at track days. Period. Racing is different. You are grouped together with like machines and the grid size is far smaller than any "B", "I", or "A" NESBA session.

The Dutch has spoken. Live with it.

Wanna race hotshot

:D

[rugbymook]

Wanna race hotshot

:D

You or one of your ringers????:D

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Wait.....I did race ya couple of times.....so you can race the ringers

:haha:

[rugbymook]

Wait.....I did race ya couple of times.....so you can race the ringers

:haha:

Nope. I just looked up the results from MyLaps. We only gridded up once. VIR CycleJam on 2005. DNF. You were running the Ducs in Vintage and HWT Twins. I was a noob on my SV in the LWT stuff.

So. Do we need to go head to head?

(Let's leave the ringers out of this............. you know, just two old guys going at it for beers) :D

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Nope. I just looked up the results from MyLaps. We only gridded up once. VIR CycleJam on 2005. DNF. You were running the Ducs in Vintage and HWT Twins. I was a noob on my SV in the LWT stuff.

So. Do we need to go head to head?

(Let's leave the ringers out of this............. you know, just two old guys going at it for beers) :D


I think so, how about the Aprilia against the SV, you choose the track.....






























Disclaimer

Dont forget...............we have A few more apes then the 5.5

:D

[Leitner559]

As a B and I guy I used to run a Suz Bandit 400 which topped out just under 130. The more I learned, the more I began to understand it just wasn't up to my own safety specs to be scooting down the big straights with it. That bike lived the rest of its days cleaning up Jefferson. If a guy/gal has no fear riding down SP Main straight on a thumper dirt bike with relatively inexperienced R1s that think it's a mother fletching flea until they realize too late "oh no, that's a real bike," sorry, but he/she might suffer from rectal-cranial inversion. This is a very good decision and a futile debate.

[Tigerboy]

Since there's no denying motards have grown a lot in popularity to the point they're multiplying like rabbits, how about giving them their own class?

B = Beginner
I = Intermediate
A = Advanced
M = Motard

The Motard class could be open, since there's probably not enough to justify 3 levels. Of course they would need at least one CR. Any CR's ride motards?

If NESBA were to do this, I would give them a second look. Right now, I'm on the sidelines.

[Dutch]

No seperate class for motards.

[danrivito]

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by you, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if you ride a Motard on any track other than Summit JC and Pocono East, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy -- "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges of riding my Motard, herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... "Memo bis punitor delicatum"! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks from the cooler! You bumped into Buck's bike which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Greatest post ever on this board. Good stuff.

I understand the reasoning behind this policy change and certainly appreciate the consideration of safety.

I just hate the idea of limiting a riders chance to ride the track.

[barry38]

About 10 years ago, a bunch of guys got together came up with an idea to form a club that would allow them to ride thier sportbikes on the race track. I'm sure none of them could have imagined in thier wildest dreams that the club they created would be the operation it is today.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys who want to ride motards (or other low powered motorcycles) on the track should do the same thing.

NESBA can't be all things to all people.

[crewnutz]

while obviously people racing motards (especially Zac or Dustin) are going to be a bit faster, trackday riders on motards (especially B or I riders) are 99% of the time not fast enough to ride safely in Advanced or maybe Intermediate
after working with the Aprilia 5.5 for over a year with AB-1 I can legitimately say that they are just as capable as an SV at getting around the track in any riders hands.......
I agree with no motards...........BUT I think you guys should look into letting the Aprilia 5.5 be excluded from that list

[rugbymook]

I think so, how about the Aprilia against the SV, you choose the track.....

Disclaimer

Dont forget...............we have A few more apes then the 5.5

:D

Damn you.

You're going to make me dust off the old SV.


BeaveRun. :cool:

Bring whatever eye-o-talian motorsickle you and your spawn desire. :D

[pithorse]

well, i do love to complain, so i will. dutch your point is flawed if your only going to believe a sm will only do 100mph. and if its closing speed you are so worried about ban everything from a sv 650 and down on the bigger track if safty is your #1 concern. we could start a list of bikes that could cause and accident and speeds. ninja 250's gone, 125&250 two stoker bye bye, 600 that are 97' and older see ya! nice to know you! sv650 a damm meance i tell you! always getting in the way! Also we have to get on all the people that don't push it on the strait. I mean jesus christ what are they thinking i could hit one of them when i am not watching the track. I mean what are they thinking it a track day for cry out loud. don't they know its all about speed.
serious though its a bullshit excuse to ban sm
fuck it though I would not put my sm on the track any way for fear of hurting the motor. hell, i got sm series to run in and i need the useless point damn it( whaaaaaaaa!!! i want a top 5 finish whaaaaaaaaa!!!!)

Glad mine is a '98!!:p

[TQuig]

Apparently I am the only one that got his feelings hurt by Buck's statement that B riders have zero skills!! :( :D

For the record, I have to agree with the management on this one, particularly in 'B'. A beginning rider will be slower on a motard in the straights AND the curves. Everyone keeps talking about the advantages the motards have in the corners and for a person experienced in riding them that statement is absolutely true. Besides the comments about closing speeds, B riders are, by lack of experience, easily distracted and prone to gun-and-park riding. They will not be able to capitalize on the cornering advantages of the motard. Because of that they will ultimately carry less speed out of the corners when everyone else is hard on the pipe. Just seems like a recipe for disaster. I can only speak from the lowly 'B' group though.

[loudes13]

As a motard rider, I don't want to be a#% packed by a liter bike because there is a 40+mph closing speed.

B isn't always for fresh newbs. I signed up for B recently. I used to ride A with a 600 a few years ago. I'm not sure I want to run A with my current motard, even at the slow tracks. On the tight tracks it's less of an issue.

[Motomoon]

About 10 years ago, a bunch of guys got together came up with an idea to form a club that would allow them to ride thier sportbikes on the race track. I'm sure none of them could have imagined in thier wildest dreams that the club they created would be the operation it is today.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys who want to ride motards (or other low powered motorcycles) on the track should do the same thing.

NESBA can't be all things to all people.

Only if they put as much effort into it as they have this post.

You guys do realize that NESBA isn't the only trackday org right?

[mike574]

So if some one were to build one of the new super singles they also would not beallowed to be run at a nesba event?:popcorn:

[KarmaChameleon]

Will someone let me know if i'm not allowed to show up at NJMP with my ninja twofiddy?

[Pascal]

prone to gun-and-park riding

that's the most humble you have ever been about yourself - proud to have you as a friend :nutkick:

[thecontenda]

why do we have to wear leathers on the racetrack? i dont want to wear leathers on the racetrack. i want to wear my shorts. if you dont let me ride in my shorts, well, thats discrimination...

[TQuig]

Only if they put as much effort into it as they have this post.



:D :D :adore: :congrats:

[TQuig]

that's the most humble you have ever been about yourself - proud to have you as a friend :nutkick:


Well, first, if you were any kind of rider.... :D

:hand: right back at ya!!

:box:

[Travrsx]

Dutch, Thanks for keeping our safety center of attention to the club. That is why I prefer NESBA over other orgs. Motards are NOT being banned, they're just limited to certain tracks. Thats smart. Motards aren't even that fun on a big fast track, are they?

[Hunsicker]

Yes, thanks for keeping us safe! Seriously. In that spirit, please ban 100+HP bikes at Poco and JC. They're like going fishing with hand grenades.

From an email I received:

"And the triumph of HP over skill that underlies NESBA's reasoning is something they should be embarrassedabout, frankly."

My bike is still NESBA approved, thank goodness.

[Skippii]

Since this is a serious issue for me, I won't write in verse.
I have no experience with motards, so I don't have anything much to say about that.
But the topic of Ninja250s has come up multiple times in this thread, and I've a lot to say about that.
I've ridden my Ninja 250 at VIR-S, VIR-N, and Jefferson Circuit (twice).
Never once did I feel unsafe as people were passing me in the straights, nor as I was outbraking the same people and passing them at the end of the staights. I don't believe that I made them feel unsafe, either. Certianly my goal is to never make anyone else feel unsafe by my riding.

My Ninja 250 makes around 40bhp. At VIR-N, I was getting an indicated 106-107mph on the front straight. At JC, somewhere in the low 90s on the back straight--not sure exactly as I had better things to worry about. Top speed seems to be around an indicated 118-120mph, though I'd prefer not to say where I achieved that.
I do not know how this compares to the motards in question.
But yeah, bottom line is, it's a slow bike. But I don't think that makes it unsafe.

I'm currently riding a Ducati 800 supersport. The thing is, if I were to go back to JC now, I have no doubt in my mind I'd run faster lap times on the Ninja 250 than on the Ducati supersport. I just feel so much more comfortable, and have so much more experience on the Ninja. More important than that, I'd feel safer on the Ninja as well. I realize this will all change the more I ride and get used to the Duc. My point is just that I think the rider matters a lot more than the bike.
I was talking with Mary at my last track day about people on much faster bikes who went too slow to be safe. When I was at VIR-N, I overtook someone on the front straight who was riding an R6. A few laps later, I passed them again. If that person had been on a Motard, I probably wouldn't have thought too much about it. But on the R6, I kept wondering to myself, "When are they actually going to twist the throttle the rest of the way and blow by me?"

Now, to be clear, I'm not arguing this policy from one standpoint or another. I know nothing about motards.
All I'm saying is that if they try to put Ninja250s in this category, I highly recommend they try riding one in Beginner group on the track first. A decent rider on a 250 can still be faster than a very new rider on an R6, and safer, too. I would imagine that the same holds true for Motards.

Having said that, I don't think that these slow bikes really belong in the I or A groups. I always said I'd ride the Ninja in B until I learned everything it could teach me, and then get a new bike as soon as I got the bump to I.
Well, mechanical failiure changed that plan, but I personally still think the idea was a good one.

[Brocklanders]

Obviously there's only one way to settle who is right: A good old fashioned Torque-style bike fight.

[Rhino]

You guys do realize that NESBA isn't the only trackday org right?

Amen .... I wonder if they suffer as well with such a liberal member population!!!! :saythat:

[Morph]

Ken...you just ain't right son

[Rhino]

Ken...you just ain't right son

Ultimately ...... :agree:

[zxsixr]

This sticky was posted in the SE region also and nobody is complaining about it.
What is the deal people there org there rules........:dunno:

[Maryland998]

Excellent point!

So, how about getting people together to start a Motard Club called North East Motard Bike Association (NEMBA)?

If I rode a Motard I wouldn't want a club that might come up in the same google search as NAMBLA.

[crewnutz]

This sticky was posted in the SE region also and nobody is complaining about it.
What is the deal people there org there rules........:dunno:

thats like saying if a president makes a f-d up law its his country so quit whining.........businesses that are driven by customers are in the long run a democracy

if people actually cared enough about this rule they would rise up and/or boycott it

obviously there are very few riders that frequent NESBA that ride motards so it is really not a big deal for them to not allow them

thats just my outlook on the situation

[Dutch]

From an email I received:

"And the triumph of HP over skill that underlies NESBA's reasoning is something they should be embarrassedabout, frankly."

How much skill is involved in turning the throttle on a straight? Whoever sent you that, in a misguided attempt to sound intelligent, actually has accomplished quite the opposite.

[AB-1 Motorsports]

Whats more dangerous in the I an B groups, Some dink in his rossi leathers riding over his head on a 1000 or A guy that wants to have fun at A pace he can handle on A light wieght bike

[msanna]

I'll apologize ahead of time if I say something that has already been said, I had neither the time nor the patience to read all the posts.

Here's my 2 cents, instead of creating animosity over the situation, can we as the Nesba family perhaps look into pioneering a new rider group specifically for motards?
Team Promo is allowing cars on the track....which i think is the worst idea ever FWIW...but why not work on a Supermoto group for Nesba since it is gaining so much popularity?

Imagine this, Nesba gets to run concurrent track days at Summit Main and Shenendoah, or maybe BeaveRun and the Beav's cart track...or even either NJMP and the NJMP cart track.
Could prove to be both an exciting time for all the riders as well as economical for Nesba since they won't have to lug the trailer out for another event.

I ride both, and although I would never run either on any of the tracks except JC and East anyway, I think something like this would be awesome and really encourage more people to join Nesba.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, just had to throw my thoughts in to the pot.

[ridelater]

both beaver and njmsp seem supermoto friendly they would give you the track if you get the people. honestly though that a different ave. there are other groups that run supermoto event we should just go to them. supermoto junkies has all you need to know. there a guy there setting up days at njmsp for mini at the monment esrma will get it for us to race next yr. b.r. loves supermoto(money) if they get money(people) they let you run.

[pearsonm]

Would a 690 KTM SMC or Duke meet the definition of a single cylinder dirt bike based machine? I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m seriously considering one but I want to know before I make an expensive mistake.

[Tigerboy]

Here's my 2 cents, instead of creating animosity over the situation, can we as the Nesba family perhaps look into pioneering a new rider group specifically for motards?

Imagine this, Nesba gets to run concurrent track days at Summit Main and Shenendoah, or maybe BeaveRun and the Beav's cart track...or even either NJMP and the NJMP cart track. Could prove to be both an exciting time for all the riders as well as economical for Nesba since they won't have to lug the trailer out for another event.

I ride both, and although I would never run either on any of the tracks except JC and East anyway, I think something like this would be awesome and really encourage more people to join Nesba.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, just had to throw my thoughts in to the pot.

I suggested that a few pages back, and the request was declined. But if motards get popular enough, I can see it happening. Maybe it's just a matter of time.

You could look at ESMRA, but that's Supermoto, which involves a dirt section. Some riders don't want to do that, preferring to run their motard on pavement only.

The one supermoto track at Beaverun was tight, anything over a 450 seemed like too much bike, heck even the 250s were almost as fast as the 450s (and it was more a question of the rider, than the bike).

Given the populatrity of the KTMs that are > 600cc, I think it makes sense to have track days that cater to them. :dunno:

I certainly wouldn't let NESBA rules affect my decision whether to get one of these bikes, or not.

[pearsonm]

I certainly wouldn't let NESBA rules affect my decision whether to get one of these bikes, or not.

I'm not. I'm just trying to have some cheap fun. I find it hard to totally give up the street and have always wanted to learn how to slide around in the dirt. If a 690 and extra set of rims worked on the track, street and dirt roads it could make more sense than having separate track and street bikes.

[Dutch]

Dutch
I really dont have A dog in this fight but I will enlighten you on A few facts about the Aprilias,


Aaron Brown
AB-1 Motorsports

Aaron, drop me a line at dutch@nesba.com when you get a free moment.

[msanna]

Would a 690 KTM SMC or Duke meet the definition of a single cylinder dirt bike based machine? I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m seriously considering one but I want to know before I make an expensive mistake.

This is an interesting question, my next street bike is going to be a 690 duke, but being its a street bike with a top speed as high as an SV650, i doubt it would be a problem to track it.

[BrianR6]

thats why its called NESBA, not NEMA

[hank]

This is an interesting question, my next street bike is going to be a 690 duke, but being its a street bike with a top speed as high as an SV650, i doubt it would be a problem to track it.

I recently did a track day and there was an Aprilia SXV 550 in the Advanced group with us - that is one damn impressive bike! :adore:

And not just because I am partial to the Priller's!;)

[jennthebiker]

Would a 690 KTM SMC or Duke meet the definition of a single cylinder dirt bike based machine? I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m seriously considering one but I want to know before I make an expensive mistake.

the 690 ktm smc is part of the restriction.

(but sure is a fun bike to ride!)

[KeithM]

Hallett mostly puts on their own track days. A few ago they let MINI-MOTARDS in their Beginner group. The riders were not beginners, quite the contrary.

I'm NOT advocating what's shown below. It's just another example of their unsafe policies.

http://hallettracing.net/gallery/albums/album17/9_370.jpg
http://hallettracing.net/gallery/albums/album17/24_G.jpg
http://hallettracing.net/gallery/albums/album17/73_A.jpg

[Burnall4]

I have no concern in this matter other than Road Racing world "Track Day Directory" has a picture of a Nesba TrackDay at Barber Motorsports...with an Ape following a Triumph. Might be an old picture but I think its kind of ironical

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/gloftin/photo-16.jpg

[sternsi]

Curious on how someone other then pics of you took a pic at one of our events? Something dont seem right with that.

[Burnall4]

Curious on how someone other then pics of you took a pic at one of our events? Something dont seem right with that.

judging by the bikes, and the gear the riders are wearing...I would have to say that pic is old...were there other picture providers a couple of years back? :notsure:

[theSaint]

You can clearly see how unsafe a motard is on a fast track like HPT. While riding a casual pace in Intermediate, I can barely keep from getting run down by all the supersports, and in the straights I'm taking up at least 24" of the right side of a 30ft wide track! I give that traffic was light that day, but any competent rider should have no problem getting around a slower bike in the straights. It is a trackday, a time to enhance and hone your riding skills, not a race.
"Power without Precision is Pointless" the NESBA motto contradicts the motard ban.
NESBA says the motard ban is because of unsafe closing speeds, yet slower bikes are not banned, I say there's more to it than that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5VpWFKYe4E
2003 YZ450F with maybe 50RWHP
Video was taking last year in I group, Rider videoing was on a GSXR 750 and was bumped to Advanced a few NESBA trackdays later!

[ToddG]

"Power without Precision is Pointless" the NESBA motto contradicts the motard ban.
NESBA says the motard ban is because of unsafe closing speeds, yet slower bikes are not banned, I say there's more to it than that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5VpWFKYe4E
2003 YZ450F with maybe 50RWHP
Video was taking last year in I group, Rider videoing was on a GSXR 750 and was bumped to Advanced a few NESBA trackdays later!

Exactly what would you say there is to it?? Please do enlighten us all.

[avizpls]

maybe he doesnt know WHAT there is to it since it was all done conspiracy-style behind closed doors :rolleyes:, but there must be SOMETHING besides closing speeds as reasoning or else all slow bikes would be banned. I just got here and don't really have an idea of what it takes to run an org as well as this one is, but he's sorta got a point and I think its this: If you dont want motos, just say no motos. Dont cite weak logic for a reason.

I have a feeling I'll regret opening my mouth on this.......I ride a Monster

[Jiggy]

I have a feeling I'll regret opening my mouth on this.......I ride a Monster


Cookie Monster? "COOKIE!!!! num num num num......" :popcorn:

[07yzfr1]

If you dont want motos, just say no motos. Dont cite weak logic for a reason.

I have a feeling I'll regret opening my mouth on this.......

I think this is how a lot of people feel. Doesn't make sense to me either.

[ToddG]

FYI... We have turned away low HP/ Low Top Speed bikes at the larger tracks, and will continue to do so. Please keep in mind that this thread is about Motards, not every bike known to man. We evaluate each bike and situation on a case by case basis, and make decisions that we feel are the right one to keep safety as our #1 priority. I'm sorry if some of our decisions upset a few of you out there, but we can't please everyone every time (we do try though).

On a side note: I too am a Motard Rider (I have mine at JC) and I just don't see the point of putting it on the larger Tracks to wind the living piss out of it down the long straights.

[cyclox]

Just out of curiosity... if I show up at thunderbolt or Monticello with my TZ125, will I be told I can't ride it?

[Drtbkrdude]

So, if there were a Motard club, (NEMA), with the typical partly asphalt and partly dirt w/jumps, how many sportbikers would be whining because they can't play?
Like the man said, it's NESBA!!:banghead:

[ToddG]

Just out of curiosity... if I show up at thunderbolt or Monticello with my TZ125, will I be told I can't ride it?


My fist reaction would be No you can't ride with it at those tracks, but the other Directors, the President, and myself would discuss it. Again top speed and closing speed issues.

[cyclox]

My fist reaction would be No you can't ride with it at those tracks, but the other Directors, the President, and myself would discuss it. Again top speed and closing speed issues.

Okay, good to know.

A suggestion:

If possible, it would be good to have some sort of clarification of policy on this ahead of time. It would REALLY be disappointing to show up at a trackday and not be able to ride. I usually bring a backup bike (my 600), but not always.

-Sharad

[JGardy_781]

First, I agree with Barry from last year with this post (for those of you not wanting to wade through the entire year-old exchange):

http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showpost.php?p=10824&postcount=57

I also think that part of being in B and I is not necessarily having a perfectly clear understanding of what the actual danger you're putting yourself into when it comes to putting a grossly slower bike on track with faster bikes in the lower classes - witness discussions earlier in this very thread - CR Brian Leitner's comment about his 400 in B and I, and Buck's fruitless attempt to explain why it's dangerous to have people following 6 different race lines through a corner...

However, this guy's definately on point:

If possible, it would be good to have some sort of clarification of policy on this ahead of time. It would REALLY be disappointing to show up at a trackday and not be able to ride. I usually bring a backup bike (my 600), but not always.


Our back end IT infrastructure seems far more sophisticated now than it was a year ago (thanks, as it appears from the outside, to Ryan), so it seems that there's no reason we can't have a bike (or two) associated with us in the system, selected from a menu that stores specific characteristics about the user's selection (i.e., availability of that bike to register for specific tracks...).

I'd see it like this: When we register for events, we'd be prohibited from registering for an event if don't have an appropriate bike listed in our profile - i.e., if we only have a DRZ400, and we try and register for VIR Full, we're told that the bike listed isn't allowed at the track, and are flat prohibited from registering unless you check a box that then prompts you to choose an alternate bike that you're going to bring instead that actually are rideable on the track per executive decision. The registration system could store the individual's response, so when he says he's bringing a GSXR600 instead of the DRZ, and shows up at tech with the same DRZ400, the guys running tech can have the individual's response on paper when he trys to complain that no one told him he couldn't ride it.

I suppose I'd also move the system to having a pull-down list of bikes, and if you have a potentially limited bike, your main member profile page always would have a warning on it indicating that some tracks are off limits to the bike, with an omnipresent link to the tracks the bike is allowed on / prohibited at.

My 0.02

/j

[theSaint]

maybe he doesnt know WHAT there is to it since it was all done conspiracy-style behind closed doors :rolleyes:, but there must be SOMETHING besides closing speeds as reasoning or else all slow bikes would be banned. I just got here and don't really have an idea of what it takes to run an org as well as this one is, but he's sorta got a point and I think its this: If you dont want motos, just say no motos. Dont cite weak logic for a reason.

I have a feeling I'll regret opening my mouth on this.......I ride a Monster
Exactly the point I was trying to make!

I understand the safety concerns, but don't discriminate against one type of bike. If its a closing speed issue, ban all bikes under a 100HP.

[avizpls]

Exactly the point I was trying to make!

I understand the safety concerns, but don't discriminate against one type of bike. If its a closing speed issue, ban all bikes under a 100HP.

careful there haha...my bike is 80 some hp and I had NO closing speed issues. (whats a typical motard? 50-70hp?) When I was out on my puny little air-cooled 900 V-twin a few riders passed me and I passed just as many. I probably would be a nusance on the track in A (even if I could ride at an A level) but in B, with my riding and bikes abilities I didnt have a problem. They take it on a case by case basis, so if me and my bike were an issue they would have told me so. For all I know when I tech'd the inspector told the CRs to keep an eye on me and make sure my bike wasnt so underpowered that I was a pain in the arse on the track. I was deemed OK, but its not a terribly unfair assumption that motards are no-go. And FWIW I have to say I agree with this decision. Its NESBA and they make the rules lol . I think they're pretty accomodating. It would be balls-out fun to play with a motard out there though.

[Dutch]

I have no concern in this matter other than Road Racing world "Track Day Directory" has a picture of a Nesba TrackDay at Barber Motorsports...with an Ape following a Triumph. Might be an old picture but I think its kind of ironical

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/gloftin/photo-16.jpg


In spite of the caption that isn't a NESBA event. Vicki doesn't shoot our events in the south and the class stickers those guys are running are from STT.

[Dutch]

maybe he doesnt know WHAT there is to it since it was all done conspiracy-style behind closed doors :rolleyes:, but there must be SOMETHING besides closing speeds as reasoning or else all slow bikes would be banned. I just got here and don't really have an idea of what it takes to run an org as well as this one is, but he's sorta got a point and I think its this: If you dont want motos, just say no motos. Dont cite weak logic for a reason.

I have a feeling I'll regret opening my mouth on this.......I ride a Monster

Man some days I am really glad I am no longer a director with this organization. Today is one of those days. Want to know why? I don't have to be politically correct anymore in my replies. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves. This is one of those times. Why anyone with half a brain would think it is a good idea to take what is basically a dirt bike out on a high speed track is, quite frankly, beyond me. It speaks volumes about the overall intelligence of some folks that we even had to MAKE a rule aound this issue. And for the record, when this rule was made, 4 of the 5 directors in this region OWNED AND RODE MOTARDS. So in essence we were also limiting what tracks we could ride our own bikes on! So having just got here Einstein please tell me which part of this logic is weak? What we really need in this org is a new class. We'll call it the D class, for Dumbass. Run what you brung, no CRs, no flags, last man standing wins. It sure would thin the herd. Moooooo.

[Emerson]

I say lock this thread, and make it a sticky, stop beating a dead horse!!!!

[chaun]

Seems to me there is a breakdown in communications...

Seems some of you already new about this ruling while others are just now hearing about it. Not every member is active on the forum so maybe an email blast is in order to get the word out and head off any futher dead horse beatings.

:crs:

[Twiztedjester55]

I think Ryan needs to start working on those "D" class stickers.

[TwoTyres]

Mooooo. :D:D

[RyanITV]

For the record, it's pretty clear in the last set of checkout - the motard blurb is between the rain and cancellation policies. The exact copy shown is:

MOTARD EXCLUSION:
Motards are prohibited from NESBA track events on all but the following tracks: Pocono - East, Summit - Jefferson, Barber, Talladega GP. Riders attempting to attend events with a motard at other tracks will be turned away during tech and registration with no credit given for the day.

Just as an FYI...

Ryan

[Joe Vital]

...the new dutch is fun to read!

MOOOOOO!!!!!

[avizpls]

So having just got here Einstein please tell me which part of this logic is weak?

The part where closing speeds for motos is bad, but closing speeds for ninja 250s is ok. Make sense now, Planck? I SAID I dont know what it takes to run something as nicely as NESBA is. I SAID I agree with the ruling. ....and I said I would regret chiming in. damn