Water only for coolant on track? [Archive]

afinepoint

04-08-2010, 04:15 PM

Thanks for the feedback. Did a search and didn't see it. Fourteen hour busy work days little time off. No time to search manual. Knew someone would quickly know.

Also didn't know if the tracks have their own rules. Will be running on VIR. Will check their site whenever I get time.

Thanks,

Reg

HondaGalToo

04-08-2010, 05:25 PM

Not mandatory in B or I, as mentioned, but is highly recommended. If you use distilled water + Water Wetter, it won't make your bike run hotter. In fact, it may make it run a bit cooler. Water Wetter isn't antifreeze, so you would have to put antifreeze back in for the winter.

The rules won't be different for VIR, it's a NESBA rule, but mandatory only in A. Water Wetter is the only allowed additive/coolant in A. You mix something like 3-4 capfuls per quart of water.

afinepoint

04-08-2010, 06:44 PM

Thanks HondaGal,

I will be running B class.

The VFR runs so hot the cooling fan often runs in traffic - 220°F.

Will look into the Water Wetter.

Would really be something to being told that I can't run antifreeze anymore because I am in "A" class. :D

Reg

tomseviltwin

04-08-2010, 06:48 PM

Mikey75702

04-08-2010, 06:50 PM

It is a safety thing. Antifreeze is slippery and when spilt is hard to clean up. Dont know how many others run water/water wetter for a courtesy but I do. If some how I split a rad. hose, I would feel horrible if that cause the person behind me to wreck because I was too lazy to remove the antifreeze. Oh, and water wetter really does help cool things down nicely

Mikey75702

04-08-2010, 06:52 PM

Question for anyone running wetter... this past weekend was my first using it and I was expecting some lower temps. I noticed 238 on the back straight a few times (bike shuts off if I hit 250) on the temp guage. Will adding more wetter get this to come down some? I already have now probably closer to 4 capfulls per quart then 3.

You might have to run alittle more then that, RC's are prone to overheating because of those darn side mount radiators. Also, have you checked your fans are working. I think on the RC they kick on at something like 215.

jtsgsxr6

04-08-2010, 06:53 PM

I agree with going water/water wetter route. Some orgs don't allow ethylene glycol in I or A. Nesba is letting it slide for I. Its worth the 15 bux and half hour of work to switch, so you don't end up being "that" guy.

In fact a CR either didn't have fans hooked up or forgot to turn em on this weekend and spit up water out the overflow while idling in the hot pits. Imagine if it was anti freeze!

tomseviltwin

04-08-2010, 07:18 PM

You might have to run alittle more then that, RC's are prone to overheating because of those darn side mount radiators. Also, have you checked your fans are working. I think on the RC they kick on at something like 215.

Yeah, heard them working as hard as they could a ton this weekend.

I'll go ahead and try more wetter. For all a bottle costs I could just dump the whole thing in, but I think I'll start with just a little more.

Mikey75702

04-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Yeah, heard them working as hard as they could a ton this weekend.

I'll go ahead and try more wetter. For all a bottle costs I could just dump the whole thing in, but I think I'll start with just a little more.

I run 1/2 a bottle per fillup on my TL1000R.

HondaGalToo

04-08-2010, 08:41 PM

Question for anyone running wetter... this past weekend was my first using it and I was expecting some lower temps. I noticed 238 on the back straight a few times (bike shuts off if I hit 250) on the temp guage. Will adding more wetter get this to come down some? I already have now probably closer to 4 capfulls per quart then 3.

No, more isn't better. I notice about the same temps with water wetter + distilled water as I do with 50/50 antifreeze, maybe a degree cooler. Did you get all the air burped out?

Water Wetter is a surfactant, and it lubes the water pump.

cecilio64

04-08-2010, 09:16 PM

jcurtis

04-08-2010, 09:49 PM

Water wetter has worked well for me over the years. I follow the recomended mixture, with an extra capfulfor food measure:rolleyes:. If you are running hot check that you do not have airin the system.

JeremyGSU

04-08-2010, 10:03 PM

If you don't want to mess with mixing and don't mind paying a higher price I believe this is a premixed water/water wetter bottle.

http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=RED_80205_G

HondaGalToo

04-09-2010, 05:28 AM

The directions on the bottle of Water Wetter say 1 ounce per gallon of water. That seems like more than 3 or 4 capfuls, I think. I just took a gallon of distilled water and dumped out a little bit then added 4 ounces Water Wetter. That gave me almost enough mixture to do 2 bikes.

The directions on the bottle say one ounce (3-4 capfuls) per QUART. Did you mean quart, because putting 4 ounces in a gallon is correct...that works out to one ounce per quart. :D

barry38

04-09-2010, 08:42 AM

You might have to run alittle more then that, RC's are prone to overheating because of those darn side mount radiators. Also, have you checked your fans are working. I think on the RC they kick on at something like 215.

You can bypass the switch that turns on the fans so they continuosly, which would help. Water Wetter will help keep things a little cooler. Synthetic oil will also help.

gkotlin

04-09-2010, 09:19 AM

I believe water is a better tool at transferring heat then antifreeze is. The down fall is water freezes, antifreeze does not. Straight water isn't good for corrosion resistance. Thus adding the water wetter to help restore the corrosion resistance.

tomseviltwin

04-09-2010, 09:30 AM

No, more isn't better. I notice about the same temps with water wetter + distilled water as I do with 50/50 antifreeze, maybe a degree cooler. Did you get all the air burped out?

Water Wetter is a surfactant, and it lubes the water pump.

I think so. If not, after this past weekend of 18 hours riding on the back of a trailer and two days of track, if its not burped now I don't know that there's much more I can do. :dunno:

I run 1/2 a bottle per fillup on my TL1000R.

Couldn't hurt I guess.

You can bypass the switch that turns on the fans so they continuosly, which would help. Water Wetter will help keep things a little cooler. Synthetic oil will also help.

I've heard of the switch mod, maybe I'll try it this winter if this stays a problem all year. I didn't realize synthetic had that benefit. I might go that route.

Thanks everyone.

Joe Vital

04-09-2010, 11:25 AM

I...Straight water isn't good for corrosion resistance. Thus adding the water wetter to help restore the corrosion resistance.

Use distilled water only! Don't use tap water. It WILL corrode. I mix distilled water and water-wetter at the recommended ratio. WW is a surfactant as previously stated. I have seen some folks use liquid dish soap too...breaking the surface tension allows the water to have a larger contact area along the wall of the water passages in the engine. If the water does not follow all of micro-contours small steam pockets will develop. Steam does not transfer heat nearly as well as water.

The last time I had my '04 VFR on the track I saw temps as high as 250. It didn't miss a beat. I was using 50/50 coolant/water mix.

afinepoint

04-13-2010, 02:37 PM

OK I'm sold - Water Wetter.

HondaGalToo

04-13-2010, 02:44 PM

I have seen some folks use liquid dish soap too...breaking the surface tension allows the water to have a larger contact area along the wall of the water passages in the engine. .

I'm picturing bubbles popping out of your exhaust with the dish detergent...like a big bubble wand. LOL.

Bubba Zanetti

04-13-2010, 02:45 PM

Hey fine:

I too run a VFR on the track (albeit an older model) and as you and Joe know, they do run hot.

To date I haven't had any issues running anti-freeze in B-group.

Just an FYI.

BZ

barry38

04-13-2010, 05:05 PM

Hey fine:

I too run a VFR on the track (albeit an older model) and as you and Joe know, they do run hot.

To date I haven't had any issues running anti-freeze in B-group.

Just an FYI.

BZ

That's because you haven't crashed and pucked it all over the track! :D

Joe Vital

04-13-2010, 06:35 PM

I'm picturing bubbles popping out of your exhaust with the dish detergent...like a big bubble wand. LOL.

My daughter would love this! Make some more bubbles , daddy!

hank

04-13-2010, 07:22 PM

Here is the link to Water Wetter:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10

IIRC, WW tends to lose efficacy over time and needs to be 'recharged'. You don't have to actually drain/replace all the distilled water & WW, just add some more WW every now and then... makes sense since it is merely an anti-surfactant and just like dish washing liquid, the stuff loses its mojo after a while.

Bubba Zanetti

04-13-2010, 09:00 PM

That's because you haven't crashed and pucked it all over the track! :D

I thought one of the 'points' of a track day was NOT to crash eh Barry;)

BZ

barry38

04-14-2010, 12:35 PM

I thought one of the 'points' of a track day was NOT to crash eh Barry;)

BZ

That's usually my goal!:idea:

Zippy

04-14-2010, 03:32 PM

From what I know, Water Wetter is a non-biodegradable soap. Dish soap breaks down, but Water Wetter does not. If you have some dish soap from the 1960's, that would work because it was not biodegradable then. But any modern stuff is built to break down.

Water Wetter works by reducing the size of bubbles in the cooling system. Bubbles have air inside them, and keep the heat from getting transferred from the hot parts of the motor, and to the inner surface of the radiator. If you can reduce or eliminate those bubbles, you improve the ability of the water, or coolant, to transfer heat.