road monticello with stt on 9/6/09

[codeblue69]

well i took the chance and road the south track at monticello this past sunday. I can first say did not get the email about no camping on site,so the look on the guards face when me and my buddy chris showed up in his lifted avalanche pulling a 6x8 enclosed trailer,looking to set up the night before was worth it. We found a cheap hotel just down the road,and met a good bunch of guys from west virgina,and long island. we got there the next day around 7am,to find the worlds smallest parking lot full of eveything from a ferrai to a desmo,to a 1990 rusted out hill billy van,lol. So chris and i were set to ride in there b group,to get to know the track and to see how safe it is there. With stt u have to take a class for the 1st session,then ur free to ride after that. the class sessions go till lunch then ur let loose,if u decide to take the classes.So we figured what the hell u have to go slow to go fast and i feel it was a nice change to get some 1 on 1 time with some one faster than me. The class is good because they focus on some drills.They talk about a drill and then a control riders take u at a steady pace so u can work on it then back to the calss to talk about it and discuss the next 1 for the next session.After lunch we were off,1st impression of the track a few spots with not alot of run off,so u tend not to push threw them. Control riders r very good but they dont look back as often as nesba,a few times went around and they never turned there heads.There were a few red flags but no real bad crashes in all groups.,Overall I would go back but jump to I group. the lack of run off didnt play a factor in any crash but it is there in ur head.I feel if nesba would join then the support may help push monticello to make safety changes sooner. I have rode with alot of different clubs for my 1st year doing trackdays. I do have to say pro6cycles is my first choice just because of calabogie race track. I wish they did a few things like nesba,but not many groups do. Living in syracuse ny I would have to say next year most of my money will go to pro6,and then to stt just because beav is a long way from the cuse. and for a north east bike group there isnt alot of tracks close by,and to leave monticello off the table for a track makes it hard to spend money here. So final thought,if ur a beginner stt at monticello is a good time. if ur in I or A group, just think about those few sections with little run off and dial it back a little threw them.Just remember no track is totally safe,but monticello is alot better than the street.I have 3 trackdays left 2 at calabogie and 1 at shannonville, I am thinking about doing beav in oct,17,18th does anyone know how the weather is there that time of year? I hope this is help to anyone who reads it. I do hope nesba considers this track for next year.

[kd83]

I was out at beaver last year about the same time and it was pretty chilly, i think it was about 38 degrees going through tech and warmed up to about 55 around lunch time.

[jfmgsxr750]

This was my second time on the south course with STT. I had a good time riding in the I group. I did both days since the track is less than 1 hr from my house. I left my trailer and bike there over nite. I did the North course with TPM clock wise. I don't know why STT decided to run the north counter-clock wise??? It threw me off all day. If I never did it the RIGHT way it would have not been an issue. But it was nice too do a course with mostly left turns for once. I am looking forward to doing the FULL 4.1 mile 22 turn course clock wise in oct!!! That will be awesome!!! I will be looking forward to riding Monti next season with Stt & TPM and whoever else goes there. :adore::adore::adore:

[machdw69]

thanks for the much needed info guys. i think everyone has been pretty curious about this track and has been looking for a first hand account. cheers!

[Fastguy]

:popcorn:

[mattf]

I'm dying to ride at Monti, as I only live 30 minutes away.....but I kept hearing about the lack of run off, etc., and I haven't seen the track first hand yet so what the hell do I know? But I was watching this video of the North Loop and some of those guardrails look danger close!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEkKYvGh_HM&feature=related

[Trent1098S]

Holy hard objects batman...

Man I wouldn't run that. That looks like a cheese grater. No airfence, hell not even any TIRES. WTF? You highside out of one of those corners.... I erased what I just wrote. I'm not going to say what I was going to say because I don't want to jinx someone.

Looks like a decent course for cars, sure, but for bikes that looks like it may be one of the most dangerous tracks in North America.

[codeblue69]

yes I agree maybe not the safest track,hell could be the most dangerous.But from the things i hear beav going belly up and monticello willing to make changes if they get more support. Then i think its good to get out and ride there,even if you dont go balls out its good to get track time. Hell look at jackass Matt Maldin sat out around of racing cause he thought the track was unsafe and they had no problems.The rest of the grid road and now ama is going back and the track is making even more changes.Were not Matt and we dont ride with AMA,but I know people crash at some of the safest and strangest places on and off the track.We ride these things because there is the little bit of danger allways when u get on. I was just at Caliboge this friday and Sandy the guy who runs pro6cycle,just got married and in the riders meeting asked everyone for a wedding gift and that was not to have any red flags. Last session of the day he goes out on his 250 and crashes hard,next thing air lift is landing.Im glad to say i heard before we left he is ok sounds like he just knocked him self out. So to rap this up, I say ride were you want,ride as fast as you want but at all time be safe with in your limits. Like every control rider says,And they all say it no matter what group you ride with. This Is NOt A RACE,you win nothing at he end. So be safe everyone, and i do hope to see nesba at moticello next year:

[jfmgsxr750]

Just did the Full Monti on monday!!!! It was awesome!!!! It was supposed to be 4.1 miles and 22 turns, but the free tee shirt says 3.5 miles and 22 turns. We got robbed of .6 miles somewhere, LOL!!! It was cold, I don't think it hit 50 the whole day. But there was no wind so the cooler temps were bearable. There weren't many crashes, I guess from the cold temps and people being unfamilar with the layout. Having done the north & south twice was a huge help doing the full course. I can't wait to do the FULL MONTI again. I am looking forward to ridng at Monti next season. The elevation changes makes NJMP look flat. The fact that it is less than an hour away is just icing on the cake!!!:adore::adore::adore:

[Landshark]

I ran off in :b: and :i: because I didn't have the experience to know that's never the correct option. Once you get into :a: you'll see all those places you ran off in the lower groups would not be near enough room.
The problem is people run off because they are no longer in control. At that point they can't make any choices.
One other reason for NESBA not doing that track is the missing 3rd rail of the armoco. I think both combined made the track "unsafe" in the eyes of the evaluation staff.
Its' been said before that NESBA would indeed go there if the changes are done. From what I hear that layout is pretty fun and many have even said it's on their list of personal favorites.
I'd love to try it but I might just toe the company line until some changes are complete.

[Smithereens]

It's a safety call that needed to be made.....and I appreciate that Nesba made the call with our safety in mind and not simply the revenue side of the equation or the fact that we'd all love to try a new track in our back yard.

I just don't see how Nesba agreeing to ride there before the upgrades are done would provide any incentive for the track to make the upgrades in a timely fashion and it ignores the basis for the decision which is rider safety under current conditions. Better runoff or fencing in the future sure doesn't help the rider who is hurt today.

[rk97]

But from the things i hear beav going belly up and monticello willing to make changes if they get more support.

If you believe Monte's post on the WERA board, BeaveRun is business as usual for the 2010 season. The track is in receivership, but rumors of it closing appear to be just that: rumors. So yeah, it's a hike for you Syracuse guys, but all indications are that it WILL be an option.

I can't say I agree with this "we'll make changes if we get more money from you" attitude Monticelo is projecting. I believe NESBA's approach of "we'll give you money after you make the necessary changes" is a lot more effective - it provides incentive for action.

I'm legitimately disappointed that some orgs have chosen to pay Monticelo to do nothing. yes, safety on the track and accepting risks are personal choices - but trackday orgs owe it to their members to keep conditions as safe as possible (like teching our bikes, having passing rules, etc). The orgs riding Monticelo simply AREN'T doing everything in their power to encourage that track to make changes sooner, rather than later. This notion of "safe enough" for a trackday just doesn't fly with me. "As safe as it can be" should be the measuring stick.

I'm sure it's easier for me to say that, given the fact that i'm within 2 hours of at 3 different tracks, but the principle of an org not taking every step it can to ensure its members' safety really doesn't sit right with me.

unfortunately i doubt any real changes will be made until there's a really close-call, or god forbid, a serious injury.

[Nesba]

If you believe Monte's post on the WERA board, BeaveRun is business as usual for the 2010 season. The track is in receivership, but rumors of it closing appear to be just that: rumors. So yeah, it's a hike for you Syracuse guys, but all indications are that it WILL be an option.

I can't say I agree with this "we'll make changes if we get more money from you" attitude Monticelo is projecting. I believe NESBA's approach of "we'll give you money after you make the necessary changes" is a lot more effective - it provides incentive for action.

I'm legitimately disappointed that some orgs have chosen to pay Monticelo to do nothing. yes, safety on the track and accepting risks are personal choices - but trackday orgs owe it to their members to keep conditions as safe as possible (like teching our bikes, having passing rules, etc). The orgs riding Monticelo simply AREN'T doing everything in their power to encourage that track to make changes sooner, rather than later. This notion of "safe enough" for a trackday just doesn't fly with me. "As safe as it can be" should be the measuring stick.

I'm sure it's easier for me to say that, given the fact that i'm within 2 hours of at 3 different tracks, but the principle of an org not taking every step it can to ensure its members' safety really doesn't sit right with me.

unfortunately i doubt any real changes will be made until there's a really close-call, or god forbid, a serious injury.

I am so glad to see someone understands the position we HAD collectively as motorcycle track day orgs. The short sightedness of the orgs motivated by money is absolutely ridiculous.

[philoniousmonk]

Just did the Full Monti on monday!!!! It was awesome!!!! It was supposed to be 4.1 miles and 22 turns, but the free tee shirt says 3.5 miles and 22 turns. We got robbed of .6 miles somewhere, LOL!!! It was cold, I don't think it hit 50 the whole day. But there was no wind so the cooler temps were bearable. There weren't many crashes, I guess from the cold temps and people being unfamilar with the layout. Having done the north & south twice was a huge help doing the full course. I can't wait to do the FULL MONTI again. I am looking forward to ridng at Monti next season. The elevation changes makes NJMP look flat. The fact that it is less than an hour away is just icing on the cake!!!:adore::adore::adore:

...but then again i stayed at a tip-toe pace most of the day due to the fridge temps and unfamiliarity with the track (first time). Here's a fairly clear vid for you to decide.

Full Course, 4.1 ahh 3.5 miles, 22 turns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsH50mpqP9M

After a quick review myself...OK yeah, that damn ARMCO is close:wow:, but there are tire walls. Take a look, im sure going slow enough...

[thundertwini]

I respect NESBA, and I understand their decision not to run there.

But, based on the video, it looks OK to me. Sure it's sketchy. But I started my roadracing career on Firebird Main in Phoenix. I have also done a track day at Phoenix International Raceway. Those places are way more sketchy than Monticello.

[NoBull]

I respect NESBA, and I understand their decision not to run there.

But, based on the video, it looks OK to me. Sure it's sketchy. But I started my roadracing career on Firebird Main in Phoenix. I have also done a track day at Phoenix International Raceway. Those places are way more sketchy than Monticello.

Please don't take this the wrong way but it looks OK to you because of the speeds in the B group. Take it up to A group speed and those armco's are awefully close. Even in the B group the way people get run off the track by other people making bad passes it could end up really really bad.

Full Course, 4.1 ahh 3.5 miles, 22 turns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsH50mpqP9M

Man that back section look fun as hell. Long back straight with a high speed kink, then a chikane, more straights and highspeed turns. I would love that.

[Casper]

I am so glad to see someone understands the position we HAD collectively as motorcycle track day orgs. The short sightedness of the orgs motivated by money is absolutely ridiculous.

Ever given any thought to using Nesba's bargaining power to encourage the repave/redo Main?

[jfmgsxr750]

Nice video, that had to be the I group. You have to ride this track in person to appreciate those elevation changes. The track is just awesome and it is a fun track. I don't see how some can say it is unsafe going on the word of others. You have to see and ride it for yourself. It is a track day NOT A RACE. I have ridden there 5 times and there were very few crashes/run offs each time. I have ridden with NESBA at thunder once and they took the chicane out of turn 3 (I am sure thats the turn). Everyone else runs that chicane even AMA ran it. :dunno:

[NoBull]

Ever given any thought to using Nesba's bargaining power to encourage the repavement of Main?

They did that 2 years ago and this is the shape it's in now. They can't keep repaving.

[PJZOCC624]

I am so glad to see someone understands the position we HAD collectively as motorcycle track day orgs. The short sightedness of the orgs motivated by money is absolutely ridiculous.

Chris is just trying to suck up for a free track day...

[slowpoke]

Nice video, that had to be the I group. You have to ride this track in person to appreciate those elevation changes. The track is just awesome and it is a fun track. I don't see how some can say it is unsafe going on the word of others. You have to see and ride it for yourself. It is a track day NOT A RACE. I have ridden there 5 times and there were very few crashes/run offs each time. I have ridden with NESBA at thunder once and they took the chicane out of turn 3 (I am sure thats the turn). Everyone else runs that chicane even AMA ran it. :dunno:

i'd have to imagine that nesba (as an org) isn't considering anyone's posts to determine safety of a track. They made a decision in the interest of the members (not for profit, remember?)
dude, the argument is getting old - you've got what you wanted: a fun track that you deem safe and it's close to home. why continue to beat the dead-horse?
if you're looking for somebody to agree with you, there are some great guys/girls here: http://www.sttforum.com/sttforum/

So Tbolt you like the chicane, you love Monti part or full, .....

Choices - you've got plenty of choices to ride w/ other orgs/clubs and each one has their good and bad. Exercise your options and run the chicane, run Monti, run whatever you want except for the incessant posts about Monti and nesba needs to change this, that, and this........ not b/c you shouldn't speak up, but b/c you've spoken-they've listened and said No!

[Dutch]

So if a company is selling a sub standard product would you still buy it in hopes that they would use your money to improve it?

Here's another thought. Monticello never intended to rent out their facility to motorcycle guys. The economy hit the car guys just as badly if not worse then it hit the motorcycle crew. Alot of car guys have their net worth tied up in the market that is just only now starting to show signs of a true rebound. A corresponding decrease in 4 wheel track days was the predictable result. For Monticello to survive they had to open it up to bikes. What do you think is going to happen when the economy rebounds and the car guys find their discretionary income?

[jfmgsxr750]

Sub-standard product see GM, Ford & Chrysler..........LOL. Maybe Monti will get a bail-out too!!! I hope the market picks up soon and we get out his resession ASAP. If when things get back to normal and Monti kicks us bikers to the curb, so be it. At least I/we got to enjoy it a few/many times. :adore:

I don't expect NESBA to change their minds cause I and other Orgs like the track. Like the gentleman said we all have a choice to ride where we want and with who we want.:agree: I am just glad we have another track option in the area and wish we had MORE!!!! :)