Baber fuel give away

[slowpoke]

wow - i guess i'm a blind sheep, but Brad thanks for the free tank. Bike ran stronger than pump alhtough the burnt chicken smell was a bit much. thanks for supporting nesba and hope that we support you back.

[Trent1098S]

One last piece of advice. You mentioned several times that your processes are "trade secrets." Owning a software company I have some experience with copyright, trade secrets, etc. Trade secrets are notoriously fragile. The only way to enforce them is if you have everyone you work with sign non-disclosure agreements. That forms a contract that they will not divulge trade secrets. If they break that they can be sued.

The problem is it's troublesome to try to maintain trade secrets, and all it takes is an anonymous posting somewhere and your "secrets" become public domain. (Search around for RSA encryption algorithm RC4 for an example, the "Hello Mr. Anderson" post on UseNet that divulged it to the public lost RSA exclusivity to collect royalties on what eventually became WEP, or Wireless Encryption Protocol, currently used in every modern wireless device in the world...)

If you were to tell someone - anyone - your "special recipe", or they deduce it by witnessing it, they disclose the process or procedure to the public, and you do NOT have a non-disclosure in effect with them, that process or procedure immediately becomes public domain and you have no claim or rights to it. Period.

That's where patents come in. A patent application lets you identify the specific process and method you use to achieve an end result. Then you can fully disclose what you're doing (it's got to be on the patent application, in fact, which is a matter of public record). You don't have to worry about holding secrets because if anyone USES your method without your permission for commercial gain, you can sue their ass off.

You gain both protection in your process and the ability to disclose as much of your operation as you desire to prove that your methods and practices are sound. Best of both worlds.

Either way you go about it, relying on trade secrets is notoriously fragile and it's probably in your best interest if you have developed something truly unique to talk to a patent attorney at some point to protect yourself. If it's really as good as you say it is, you could then eventually license the method to a big company that has the means to produce, market, and distribute worldwide. Then you sit back and make royalties, without having to do all this leg work by yourself.

Anyway can't think of anything else at the moment, so take care and good luck. Looking forward to more information over the coming months.

[Ruhe52]

I know one bike tossed the rider and flipped end over end and caught fire, something I'd never personally witnessed before this weekend.

It had absolutely nothing to do with fuel he was running but lets just say bad wiring and not with the bike.

Trent pretty valid questions / concerns but wow would it have been nice if you would have taken this off forum and discussed. First off these guys gave 500 gallons of fuel away. While you might question price and cost it did cost something. BW is more directed as I understand toward the trackday rider right now. Do you work for VP fuels or just look to drum people with an idea and dream into the ground?

If you or friends have concern don't take the free fuel pretty simple solution.

[Trent1098S]

Mike,

No I don't work for VP.. I'm just a software engineer that likes track days. It wasn't my intention to blast in to the concept so harshly, and I have apologized already for the way I initially approached the matter. I will explain WHY however, if it will help put the issue to rest. I was taken aback because the green movement as a whole has spawned off so many scams it's rediculous, even our illustrious government has blown a tremendous amount of our tax money "chasing windmills." (For instance, splash and dash, energy credits, cash for clunkers, etc).

That's an entirely different discussion, but the point being when buzzwords are flying and there's little hard data to back it all up, the inner skeptic in me raises it's hackles hard. I'm hardwired that way, mainly because over the years I've seen my share of technology companies running BS marketing campaigns to get people to buy crap they really don't need to buy in order to make things work "right/better/faster."

People are ultimately going to do what they're going to do.

I will say this, however. I'm probably one of the most conservative, "prove it" type of person you're likely to ever meet. So if they put my mind at ease at some point, chances are they'll have gone a long way to convincing 99% of the target market out there that the product is safe and functions as advertised.

Because I started off with such an aggressive stance on the issue, I've taken a great deal of time today to offer constructive, helpful advice. I was home sick from work, having caught a touch of flu over the weekend somewhere in one of the half dozen states I was in last weekend.. so I tried to use the time as best as I could to put thoughts to keyboard, and give some ideas.

For the record, I'm not an adversary by any stretch of the imagination, and it would please me greatly to see a new grassroots company start up and succeed, especially against big oil.

I'm just a damn hard sell.

So sell me.

[Ryan711]

Originally Posted by Trent1098S

One last piece of advice. You mentioned several times that your processes are "trade secrets." Owning a software company I have some experience with copyright, trade secrets, etc. Trade secrets are notoriously fragile. The only way to enforce them is if you have everyone you work with sign non-disclosure agreements. That forms a contract that they will not divulge trade secrets. If they break that they can be sued.

The problem is it's troublesome to try to maintain trade secrets, and all it takes is an anonymous posting somewhere and your "secrets" become public domain. (Search around for RSA encryption algorithm RC4 for an example, the "Hello Mr. Anderson" post on UseNet that divulged it to the public lost RSA exclusivity to collect royalties on what eventually became WEP, or Wireless Encryption Protocol, currently used in every modern wireless device in the world...)

If you were to tell someone - anyone - your "special recipe", or they deduce it by witnessing it, they disclose the process or procedure to the public, and you do NOT have a non-disclosure in effect with them, that process or procedure immediately becomes public domain and you have no claim or rights to it. Period.

That's where patents come in. A patent application lets you identify the specific process and method you use to achieve an end result. Then you can fully disclose what you're doing (it's got to be on the patent application, in fact, which is a matter of public record). You don't have to worry about holding secrets because if anyone USES your method without your permission for commercial gain, you can sue their ass off.

You gain both protection in your process and the ability to disclose as much of your operation as you desire to prove that your methods and practices are sound. Best of both worlds.

Either way you go about it, relying on trade secrets is notoriously fragile and it's probably in your best interest if you have developed something truly unique to talk to a patent attorney at some point to protect yourself. If it's really as good as you say it is, you could then eventually license the method to a big company that has the means to produce, market, and distribute worldwide. Then you sit back and make royalties, without having to do all this leg work by yourself.

Anyway can't think of anything else at the moment, so take care and good luck. Looking forward to more information over the coming months.

That's one way to look at. The very small start up business owner may not be able to afford the services of a patent attorney. Say he does get the patent(s). Unless he has covered all his bases properly, anyone can figure out how to tweak the process/invention just enough to get around the patent.

Hell, try defending a patent against a large corporation with a team of lawyer$$$ even if they are in clear violation. Not exactly feasible for a fledgling business. In this case they would have to build the legal fees into the cost of the product, thereby losing their competitive price point.

I think you'll find that for this reason, many of the very small companies that make up the motorcycle aftermarket don't obtain patents and can do nothing but sit by while companies like PSR blatantly rips them off.